tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704583061723470804.post1059761519613374153..comments2024-03-10T07:42:17.071-04:00Comments on The Film Doctor: How to foul up a classic: 11 notes on Tim Burton's Alice in WonderlandThe Film Doctor http://www.blogger.com/profile/03073505923746994988noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704583061723470804.post-72925372694993582912010-06-12T09:32:39.716-04:002010-06-12T09:32:39.716-04:00Adelaide,
We can agree to disagree. Certainly, i...Adelaide,<br /><br />We can agree to disagree. Certainly, in terms of worldwide reception (the film earning over a billion dollars), Burton's <i>Alice</i> has done well. Fantasy can get very random very fast, and I prefer the core of logic that Carroll often brought to his original scenes.The Film Doctor https://www.blogger.com/profile/03073505923746994988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704583061723470804.post-31964243173800755392010-06-12T06:09:09.391-04:002010-06-12T06:09:09.391-04:00I have to disagree. At first I was a little worrie...I have to disagree. At first I was a little worried due to all the bad reviews and the fact the story had changed, but I really think Burton made it work. As long as you are not expecting to see the classic story retold word for word, I think it is fantastic. <br /><br />Also, there is not enough time in a filmt o fit everything in, or to distinguish between the different books; I think it was much better that they didn't try to do this, as it would have over-complicated the plot line, and just confused people. Also, seeing as it was a whole different story, it wasn't necessary to do this as it is assumed to be after the events in both the books.<br /><br />Basically, I think it really worked, as long as you are not too precious about the original story.<br /><br />http://howtobecomeaculturedperson.blogspot.com/Alicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09277044628216324600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704583061723470804.post-51918533397297947502010-03-24T15:37:58.231-04:002010-03-24T15:37:58.231-04:00Sam,
It's always good when we agree. Thanks ...Sam,<br /><br />It's always good when we agree. Thanks again for your generous shout-outs to my work on <i>Wonders in the Dark</i>.<br /><br />herry,<br /><br />I agree. After <i>Avatar</i>, <i>Alice</i>'s 3D effects seemed incidental and old-fashioned, using stuff thrown toward the viewer for effect.The Film Doctor https://www.blogger.com/profile/03073505923746994988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704583061723470804.post-50416151028135122592010-03-20T09:45:16.676-04:002010-03-20T09:45:16.676-04:00I have seen it. Its good but not perfect.
Just goo...I have seen it. Its good but not perfect.<br />Just good.<br />With the new 3D technology should more amazing......my opinionherryhttp://www.thepersonalinjurylawyers.com.au/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704583061723470804.post-60380850514361929412010-03-19T14:27:56.626-04:002010-03-19T14:27:56.626-04:00"Thanks, "Just." That version struc..."Thanks, "Just." That version struck me as kind of dull. I prefer the more vicious 1988 version of Alice by Jan Stankmajer."<br /><br />Film Dr., I can't argue with this at all. Burton's film is nowhere in a league with Stankmajer's. Burton's film is passable, but it's no work of art remotely.Sam Julianonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704583061723470804.post-29643452672792579672010-03-18T02:53:23.067-04:002010-03-18T02:53:23.067-04:00Thanks, Sam, for your thoughts.
I was disappointe...Thanks, Sam, for your thoughts.<br /><br />I was disappointed in <i>Alice</i> in proportion to my appreciation of the original two books. I have taught the them multiple times, finding correspondences in Modernist literature (especially Kafka), Einstein's theories of relativity, and Darwinian evolution. Carroll's work holds up well for both adults and children, but Disney tends to just cater to the kids.<br /><br />Thanks, "Just." That version struck me as kind of dull. I prefer the more vicious 1988 version of <i>Alice</i> by Jan Stankmajer.The Film Doctor https://www.blogger.com/profile/03073505923746994988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704583061723470804.post-6818691920091780352010-03-16T22:50:49.814-04:002010-03-16T22:50:49.814-04:00http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeIXfdogJbA
To off...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeIXfdogJbA<br /><br />To offer a point of comparison.Just Call Me Alicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704583061723470804.post-86224398716648358352010-03-14T15:37:51.053-04:002010-03-14T15:37:51.053-04:00All excellent points for sure Film Dr., but I do N...All excellent points for sure Film Dr., but I do NOT agree with "Jake" that this is any kind of a "massive disappointment", which for me is a statement of massive overkill. It gets maybe 3 to 3 1/2 of 5 on the strength of some (nonetheless) ravishing visuals, a partial feel for the material (yeah who could really manage to capture Carroll's prose on screen to be honest?) and another engaging score by Danny Elfman. It's a step down from his last work SWEENEY TODD, but it's intermittantly a fun film, as my five kids ages 13,12, 10, 8 and 7 testified upon leaving our local multiplex.<br /><br />And we saw the 2D here, not the 3D.Sam Julianonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704583061723470804.post-70431679200762206192010-03-09T09:20:17.981-05:002010-03-09T09:20:17.981-05:00Thanks, Hokahey,
I'm still surprised by how l...Thanks, Hokahey,<br /><br />I'm still surprised by how little feel Burton or Woolverton has for Carroll's prose. Nonsense fiction can explore existential absurdity, the paradoxes of time, questions of identity, and game logic (among other things), but this <i>Alice</i> reduces all of that to the fun of seeing animals talk or human faces distort in a colorfully quirky world. I often like Burton's work (such as his <i>Sweeney Todd</i>), so I wonder how much Disney is at fault.The Film Doctor https://www.blogger.com/profile/03073505923746994988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704583061723470804.post-42111642112530320942010-03-08T19:09:16.161-05:002010-03-08T19:09:16.161-05:00Jake - When Alice points at China, I said to mysel...Jake - When Alice points at China, I said to myself, "Right! To open China to imperialism by eleven different nations."<br /><br />FilmDr. - Your #11 says it all. Well said about in regards to the "wit, madness, and menace" of the book. And, yes, it was reduced to something bland and safe. <br /><br />The teens in my Drama Club are big Burton/Depp fans but they were mostly disappointed by this film. One student in particular was sorely disappointed, and she said she had waited for this movie for two years.Richard Bellamyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12397053921647421425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704583061723470804.post-50576544386700860722010-03-07T14:11:46.061-05:002010-03-07T14:11:46.061-05:00Thanks, Jake,
I fully agree with your point about...Thanks, Jake,<br /><br />I fully agree with your point about <br />"useless protagonists becoming heroes only in the end." Did you notice that the last (spoiler alert) shot of Alice looking nobly forth from the ship alluded to the famous last shot of Greta Garbo's Queen Christina? Talk about not living up to the allusion:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFFtj4N9rfw<br /><br />Thanks AR,<br /><br />I've made the correction. Alice Liddell I believe was 10 at the time Lewis Carroll first started narrating the tale to her in 1862.The Film Doctor https://www.blogger.com/profile/03073505923746994988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704583061723470804.post-54602282768884817512010-03-07T13:13:12.815-05:002010-03-07T13:13:12.815-05:00I'm not sure I'm going to see Burton's...I'm not sure I'm going to see Burton's film just yet. I have far too many reservations and am generally too attached to the books.<br /><br />Anyway, to be utterly pedantic, Alice is 7 in the books, not 10.<br /><br />And I hate how writers keep insisting on grafting the 2 books together without recognizing the differences in structure, tone, and theme. The chess game in Looking Glass is incredibly integral to the structure, but few films ever seen to delve into that.<br />Fusing the Red Queen with the Queen of Hearts is just...UGH.ARhttp://www.lunar-circuitry.net/wordpressnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704583061723470804.post-25559005883027132882010-03-07T13:02:16.740-05:002010-03-07T13:02:16.740-05:00Yeah, this was a massive disappointment. And it wa...Yeah, this was a massive disappointment. And it wasn't even a disappointment in the sense that I expected anything from it. I went in expecting nothing, got a very interesting vision of Alice as a strong female presence (yes, she's passive in terms of the plot for much of the movie, but she always asserts herself and flat out refuses to follow the prophecy everyone tells her about because she must do what she feels is right). Then it all just fell apart. Wonderland was dull. The Red Queen started great then deteriorated. Burton gives us just about the most feminist character to ever grace a Disney film, then he undercuts that for the sake of plot convenience and adherence to the old adventure tale structures of useless protagonists becoming heroes only in the end. Of course, by the time she left (and did you get the vibe from the end that she was going to basically help ruin China by opening it to British trade? What the hell is up with that?), she'd become a hero that Wonderland didn't deserve.Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09078001374402400232noreply@blogger.com